Interesting news out of Waxahachie

[Farmer]

I know this is the 6A forum but I figured this story would get more traffic on this board rather than the 5A board.
Waxahachie may be in trouble with this hire

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/investigates/2015/05/18/questions-surround-kitnas-coaching-gig-at-waxahachie/27562997/

[Super B]

Why do you think there will be or should be trouble?

[Farmer]

http://www.txhsfbtalk.com/forum/4a-f...-at-waxahachie

Why do you think there will be or should be trouble?

First off certification to teach in Texas. If you are not a certified teacher in the state most districts will not hire you as a full time employee to coach football. Waxahachie appeared to have this guideline in place but appears to have made an exception and offered a much higher salary. They also have given favors to wives and other family members as a way to entice them to come which I'm sure is a direct violation of hiring policies.
That's just a start to what appears to be a myriad of issues going on there. Something doesn't sound right about this at all and shame on Kitna for holding a school district hostage to meet his "non negotiable" demands

[Super B]

I assume those coaches would have been required to obtain their certification by the time it is time for them to teach. That would have had to be non-negotiable as well.

I don't blame Kitna at all. I blame the AD. Kitna figured this guy really wants him, so he knew he had bargaining power. Blaming Kitna is like blaming Kobe for his ridiculous contract with the Lakers.

The AD should have simply laughed, then wrote back saying, "thank you for your interest, but I have decided to go in a different direction.". That would have been the end of it. If district hiring policies were violated, so what? No state laws were broken. In the end, the AD really wanted Kitna and did what he felt was necessary to get him. Idiotic move, yes, but otherwise there is nothing here that I can see Kitna losing his job. What's done is done. The AD may lose his job though simply because of backlash from parents and the community.

Heck, the school board had to approve this hire. There is no way they didn't know every single detail. If they didn't know all the details they only have themselves to blame.

[Farmer]

I assume those coaches would have been required to obtain their certification by the time it is time for them to teach. That would have had to be non-negotiable as well.

I don't blame Kitna at all. I blame the AD. Kitna figured this guy really wants him, so he knew he had bargaining power. Blaming Kitna is like blaming Kobe for his ridiculous contract with the Lakers.

The AD should have simply laughed, then wrote back saying, "thank you for your interest, but I have decided to go in a different direction.". That would have been the end of it. If district hiring policies were violated, so what? No state laws were broken. In the end, the AD really wanted Kitna and did what he felt was necessary to get him. Idiotic move, yes, but otherwise there is nothing here that I can see Kitna losing his job. What's done is done. The AD may lose his job though simply because of backlash from parents and the community.

Heck, the school board had to approve this hire. There is no way they didn't know every single detail. If they didn't know all the details they only have themselves to blame.

For Kitna to put a distric on hostage like that and go against wha they were requiring is borish and shows a lack of character. It sounds like the AD actually had no part of this and it was done by the Sup without many others knowing what was going on. The board approving the hire doesn't necessary mean they know what was going on behind the scenes either and for 4 non certified teachers without the proper certification courses in place to get paid 70K a year as well as a job created for daddy Kitna just spells corruption all the way around and Kitna making his demands is shameful at best.
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see an investigation opened up and all sorts of violations committed and Waxahachie looking for a new coach by summer time.

[AllenEaglesFan]

I do believe there are some holes in this story as Kitna was a high school coach previously in Ohio as shown on Inside the NFL, I think it was after being released by the Bengals before the Cowboys picked him up. Does sound like the superintendent did some things to get him that some parents may not like but seen that with others too and the superintendent looks to be the most to blame. But also have to read the part where the main one throwing the fuss has made other complaints too. Being interesting to see if this is swept under the rug or something made of this ordeal.

[Farmer]

Being a coach in Ohio or Washington State for that matter doesn't automatically qualify you as a certified teach in the state of Texas. Furthermore Waxahachie and just about every single district in Texas for that after requires all their coaches to be certified teachers and that was outlined in the job detail description. I'm not sure where the holes are it stinks to high heaven and backb

[CHill]

Being a coach in Ohio or Washington State for that matter doesn't automatically qualify you as a certified teach in the state of Texas. Furthermore Waxahachie and just about every single district in Texas for that after requires all their coaches to be certified teachers and that was outlined in the job detail description. I'm not sure where the holes are it stinks to high heaven and backb

One of the assisted coach's has never coach HS football and last job before moving to Texas was an correctional officer. Wonder how many of these coach's have college degrees and if not, how would they even get a state certification to coach?

[Farmer]

One of the assisted coach's has never coach HS football and last job before moving to Texas was an correctional officer. Wonder how many of these coach's have college degrees and if not, how would they even get a state certification to coach?

This is an interesting email sent from the superintendent to some people. Smells rotten to me

[svhorns]

The things people are willing to do to get what they want. My God. Both parties look bad here. Kitna isn't brain dead. The superintendent is making it seem like this is strictly for publicity, and doesn't give 2 shits about a teaching certificate. Screw the kids give me some publicity!

[chhspantherfan]

Not at all, this is the start of it folks. Next up the Waxahachie Under Armour All Stars vs. Allen University.

[Eagle2]

The issue here is that the State of Texas requires all teachers to be certified in a subject area along with a college degree. It does not matter whether you are an in state applicant or out of state applicant. The second issue is the salary of the assistant coaches and other personnel from $40k-$70k. Most coaches in the state teach 1-3 classes if not more. Head coaches although they may not teach still hold some type of certification. Kitna did his job by hiring his staff and getting them paid in the process finding positions for them all. What is upsetting is this process and new trend by Waxahachie in hiring non certified personnel. Unless they filed an exemption with the state that will give these new hires time to get certified. Let's just open it up and hire the AAU coaches, pee wee little league coaches, and others with no UIL or public education experience to oversee our kids and see how that will work out cause this Waxahachie process is the beginning of such.

[svhorns]

The issue here is that the State of Texas requires all teachers to be certified in a subject area along with a college degree. It does not matter whether you are an in state applicant or out of state applicant. The second issue is the salary of the assistant coaches and other personnel from $40k-$70k. Most coaches in the state teach 1-3 classes if not more. Head coaches although they may not teach still hold some type of certification. Kitna did his job by hiring his staff and getting them paid in the process finding positions for them all. What is upsetting is this process and new trend by Waxahachie in hiring non certified personnel. Unless they filed an exemption with the state that will give these new hires time to get certified. Let's just open it up and hire the AAU coaches, pee wee little league coaches, and others with no UIL or public education experience to oversee our kids and see how that will work out cause this Waxahachie process is the beginning of such.

great post

[chhspantherfan]

The issue here is that the State of Texas requires all teachers to be certified in a subject area along with a college degree. It does not matter whether you are an in state applicant or out of state applicant. The second issue is the salary of the assistant coaches and other personnel from $40k-$70k. Most coaches in the state teach 1-3 classes if not more. Head coaches although they may not teach still hold some type of certification. Kitna did his job by hiring his staff and getting them paid in the process finding positions for them all. What is upsetting is this process and new trend by Waxahachie in hiring non certified personnel. Unless they filed an exemption with the state that will give these new hires time to get certified. Let's just open it up and hire the AAU coaches, pee wee little league coaches, and others with no UIL or public education experience to oversee our kids and see how that will work out cause this Waxahachie process is the beginning of such.

When the money began trickling down, this was inevitable. It started years ago so this doesn't surprise me. We had a great conversation on this several years ago that I wish was accessible.

[Eagle2]

A rebuttal from the Waxahachie Superintendant:

http://highschoolsportsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/05/waxahachie-isd-superintendent-calls-kitna-report-erroneous-untrue.html/

Of course he has to say what he says. The damage has been done. The fact remains that the assistant coaches were paid a beginning salary more than veteran coaches and teachers that have been in the profession for years. Secondly, to satisfy state requirements, the coaches had no choice but to enroll in an approved alternative certification program. Still hogwash.

[Farmer]

The issue here is that the State of Texas requires all teachers to be certified in a subject area along with a college degree. It does not matter whether you are an in state applicant or out of state applicant. The second issue is the salary of the assistant coaches and other personnel from $40k-$70k. Most coaches in the state teach 1-3 classes if not more. Head coaches although they may not teach still hold some type of certification. Kitna did his job by hiring his staff and getting them paid in the process finding positions for them all. What is upsetting is this process and new trend by Waxahachie in hiring non certified personnel. Unless they filed an exemption with the state that will give these new hires time to get certified. Let's just open it up and hire the AAU coaches, pee wee little league coaches, and others with no UIL or public education experience to oversee our kids and see how that will work out cause this Waxahachie process is the beginning of such.

Outstanding post! You said everything beautifully.

[Farmer]

When the money began trickling down, this was inevitable. It started years ago so this doesn't surprise me. We had a great conversation on this several years ago that I wish was accessible.

Question sir,
With your background in the game and you knowing so many who have coached the game. Can you think of a program today that has a HC or a slew of assistants who are not currently certified to teach in the state?

[AllenEaglesFan]

One of the assisted coach's has never coach HS football and last job before moving to Texas was an correctional officer. Wonder how many of these coach's have college degrees and if not, how would they even get a state certification to coach?

Well you don't actually have to have a college degree to get a teaching certificate, it is not a requirement or that prestigious thing like some are making it out to be. Texas, as most other states does accept most other states teaching certificates with a little paper work. Sure most of his staff are college graduates as he is and if not already have it will get it before they teach any class although substitutes teachers teach and do not always have it either. Not saying this is justify's whats going on here. It is clear the ISD superintendent wanted Kitna and made it happen and looks like school board approved it? I'd be surprised if anything much happens and Kitna and crew more than likely will coach there but you never know.

[Farmer]

Well you don't actually have to have a college degree to get a teaching certificate, it is not a requirement or that prestigious thing like some are making it out to be. Texas, as most other states does accept most other states teaching certificates with a little paper work. Sure most of his staff are college graduates as he is and if not already have it will get it before they teach any class although substitutes teachers teach and do not always have it either. Not saying this is justify's whats going on here. It is clear the ISD superintendent wanted Kitna and made it happen and looks like school board approved it? I'd be surprised if anything much happens and Kitna and crew more than likely will coach there but you never know.

This couldn't be more wrong. You absolutely do have to have a college degree in order to obtain a teaching certificate in Texas.

[AllenEaglesFan]

This couldn't be more wrong. You absolutely do have to have a college degree in order to obtain a teaching certificate in Texas.

Ok, it was changed recently like firemen and police officers but still anyone with the five requirements can get one. Not a big deal for any college graduate.

[Farmer]

Ok, it was changed recently like firemen and police officers but still anyone with the five requirements can get one. Not a big deal for any college graduate.

It was not changed recently.

[AllenEaglesFan]

It was, but does that really matter here? Not really. Anyway sure they will get or already have them before teaching.
This was done via the Good ole boy system and a critic of the Superintendent does not like him or his methods. Doubt if much more will be done? Worse case is a couple of his assistance like the correctional officer might leave but doubtful Kitna leaves and will take a lot more than one critic of the Superintendent to get rid of him as have to get the school board to agree. They already approved Kitna and the others so very doubtful.

[Farmer]

You've always had to have a degree to obtain a teaching certification in Texas. When the alternative channels came around that's the first thing you had to prove was that you had a degree to enroll in the alternative program. Prior to alternative channels being around the only way to obtain a teaching certificate was through a University program that required at minimum a bachelors degree.

The issue is far more than what you are discussing. I wouldn't expect an Allen fan like you to understand the integrity of the game here in Texas and what is at stake and why this is a bad thing.

[svhorns]

I know back in 2004 and 2005 a degree was a must to become a coach it sounds like it hasn't changed. As someone who has spent a lot of time around coaches, one thing you always hear is, no degree no coach. I thought this was common knowledge around Texas.

[AllenEaglesFan]

Who cares when it was changed, as I know several retired teachers who did not have a degree until after they had been teaching for several years but what difference does that really make. As to the snide remark about Allen fans thanks for making us better than Farmer fans.

Like I said this was just the good ole boy system working and the critic didn't like it. He got his story printed but doubt much comes of it.

[Farmer]

Who cares when it was changed, as I know several retired teachers who did not have a degree until after they had been teaching for several years but what difference does that really make. As to the snide remark about Allen fans thanks for making us better than Farmer fans.

Like I said this was just the good ole boy system working and the critic didn't like it. He got his story printed but doubt much comes of it.

Calling BS on this. Those teachers were not certified teachers in Texas without s degree.

[Farmer]

I know back in 2004 and 2005 a degree was a must to become a coach it sounds like it hasn't changed. As someone who has spent a lot of time around coaches, one thing you always hear is, no degree no coach. I thought this was common knowledge around Texas.

This is correct.

[chhspantherfan]

Question sir,
With your background in the game and you knowing so many who have coached the game. Can you think of a program today that has a HC or a slew of assistants who are not currently certified to teach in the state?

No, the ones not certified are one-off situations. You DO NOT have to be a TX certified teacher to be a Coach. If the district thinks you are qualified and chooses to hire you to coach, that is their decision. With respect to Teaching, you must possess a State Certificate, unless you are new to the state and are in the process of obtaining one. There is a provision for Teachers with qualified life experience, but I would have to go back and research that.

[AllenEaglesFan]

No, the ones not certified are one-off situations. You DO NOT have to be a TX certified teacher to be a Coach. If the district thinks you are qualified and chooses to hire you to coach, that is their decision. With respect to Teaching, you must possess a State Certificate, unless you are new to the state and are in the process of obtaining one. There is a provision for Teachers with qualified life experience, but I would have to go back and research that.

Thank you for the information.

Calling BS on this. Those teachers were not certified teachers in Texas without s degree

See above.

[Farmer]

Thank you for the information.



See above.

The above post does nothing to say why you said was right about knowing people who were teachers and teaching in a public school before obtaining their bachelors degree.

Your statement about that is still Complete and utter bs