The Transfer Epidemic

[Eagle2]

There has been discussion about transfers. Here is a great article from Smith, Wixon, and Riddle of the DMN that takes us deep into the subject with responses from coaches for and against and possible solutions. Some great points that some here have already mention along with others. Great insight. Enjoy.

http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2...ove/index.html

[Farmer]

It's still sickening to see what's going on. Seems to be a big issue in basketball but football isn't far behind. The whole Bridgeport basketball team makes me want to throw up. It did back then and reading their story again is just blatant cheating and sad.
I am glad to see the DMN digging deeper into this. I remember being concerned about this topic on the old 5A board back in 2005-2006 and on with the transfers we saw at Carroll. Some of those fans who are now screaming loudest about this were the ones telling us we were paranoid thinking that something illegal was going on.

This crap is here to stay and I'm afraid it isn't getting any better.

[Eagle2]

It's still sickening to see what's going on. Seems to be a big issue in basketball but football isn't far behind. The whole Bridgeport basketball team makes me want to throw up. It did back then and reading their story again is just blatant cheating and sad.
I am glad to see the DMN digging deeper into this. I remember being concerned about this topic on the old 5A board back in 2005-2006 and on with the transfers we saw at Carroll. Some of those fans who are now screaming loudest about this were the ones telling us we were paranoid thinking that something illegal was going on.

This crap is here to stay and I'm afraid it isn't getting any better.

Any possible viable solution? You read in the beginning (1930) athletes sat out year. Then in '80 it was changed. Now loophole, after season/end of semester. Kids are transferring in middle school. How do you challenge/prove parents/coaches are lying? Just asking for conversation stimulate interest sake.

[Farmer]

You go back to a mandatory sit for a year. Is t a fair system? No but to allow open cheating because you can't prove that parents are openly lying to allow Johnny or Susie Q a shot to play, is the nature of the beast. That would put a stop to a lot of the crap you see going on now which is what it is. Nothing but crap and if we're not careful we are going to turn a once sacred, pure game into a total joke. We're already closer to thay than people realize

[Eagle2]

You go back to a mandatory sit for a year. Is t a fair system? No but to allow open cheating because you can't prove that parents are openly lying to allow Johnny or Susie Q a shot to play, is the nature of the beast. That would put a stop to a lot of the crap you see going on now which is what it is. Nothing but crap and if we're not careful we are going to turn a once sacred, pure game into a total joke. We're already closer to thay than people realize

So a senior that has been permitted to transfer at the end of junior year, under the sit out rule would be ineligible?

[Farmer]

So a senior that has been permitted to transfer at the end of junior year, under the sit out rule would be ineligible?

absolutely he would. Seniors can find a way to stay put to finish out their senior year if not then tough cookies

[Eagle2]

absolutely he would. Seniors can find a way to stay put to finish out their senior year if not then tough cookies

Seth Green?

[BevoBo]

So a senior that has been permitted to transfer at the end of junior year, under the sit out rule would be ineligible?

Yes! But if you knew the rule upfront, this would factor in your decision to move and/or when to move. If parents are moving now for little Johnny, then why can't little Johnny move now for Parents or family interests. It's not full proof, but the parents would know what would happen if they moved and this would factor in their decision. If the move is legit for the best interest of the family(job, housing, education) and not soley for little Johnny, then that's their decision. What I think it would do, is eliminate parents moving strictly for athletics, or splitting family's up in 2 different states or renting houses/apt temporarily in area's to accommodate little Johnny's athletic exploits.

Reading the article, it's obvious there are loop holes and DEC seems to have there hands tied in some cases. It"s not perfect, but it would send a msg that Texas would like to keep it's football a more traditional way. I just don't want it to escalate into Florida or something that could have been prevented before it's to late. Maybe it is already...idk.

[svhorns]

Interesting thread. I recently saw a pretty darn good running back in the Houston area talking to several manvel players on twitter. The RB was asking if he moved there would he need to attend 2 a days and just some other general questions about the school. It was a conversation that was being had out in the open for everyone to see. The article touched on a point regarding the connections kids have these days via social media and how it can influence a family to move or not. There's no way to close all the loopholes without a strict ruling such as the sit out the year rule. If Texas wants to shutdown the transfer epidemic than I see that being the only way to do so, sit out a year.

[Farmer]

Seth Green?

he could have stayed out but chose not to. He suffers the consequences and sits.

[Farmer]

Interesting thread. I recently saw a pretty darn good running back in the Houston area talking to several manvel players on twitter. The RB was asking if he moved there would he need to attend 2 a days and just some other general questions about the school. It was a conversation that was being had out in the open for everyone to see. The article touched on a point regarding the connections kids have these days via social media and how it can influence a family to move or not. There's no way to close all the loopholes without a strict ruling such as the sit out the year rule. If Texas wants to shutdown the transfer epidemic than I see that being the only way to do so, sit out a year.

agree! It's a more connected world today than ever and high schools sports HS really taken off because of the publicity schools receive. It's only natural to want to be apart of that. I would even go as far to propose a rule that once you start HS if it is proven that you moved for athletic purposes then you forfeit any years of eligibility you have left. I know that would never pass and is very harsh but so is having in essence rent a teams taking away from communities and programs who are doing things with their own kids and the right way.

[Eagle2]

Part2http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2015/on-the-move/part2.html

[Farmer]

Thanks for posting these eagke2

[Comanche]

It's still sickening to see what's going on. Seems to be a big issue in basketball but football isn't far behind. The whole Bridgeport basketball team makes me want to throw up. It did back then and reading their story again is just blatant cheating and sad.
I am glad to see the DMN digging deeper into this. I remember being concerned about this topic on the old 5A board back in 2005-2006 and on with the transfers we saw at Carroll. Some of those fans who are now screaming loudest about this were the ones telling us we were paranoid thinking that something illegal was going on.

This crap is here to stay and I'm afraid it isn't getting any better.

I had no idea about Bridgeport until the article, when I follow Basketball its usually larger class but it made my stomach turn when I read all that's happening, I, like you don't see anything that's gonna change this crap!

[Farmer]

I had no idea about Bridgeport until the article, when I follow Basketball its usually larger class but it made my stomach turn when I read all that's happening, I, like you don't see anything that's gonna change this crap!

I kept an eye on the 4A region 2 tournament this year because you had an undefeated Paris team and Argyle on top of 2 schools notorious for blatant cheating in Madison and AAA academy. Both Paris and Argyle lost their regional semifinal games to throws recruiting factories. I thought it was somewhat ironic that Madison, a team who has relied on transfers had their run ended by a team in Bridgeport who beat Madison at their own game. It makes you sick to see what some schools have resorted to just to become a power and win a title.

[Trojanbacker2]

This may not be comparing apples to apples, plus I am really ignorant of the transfer rules, but I know a player moved into Trinity's zone last season from American Samoa to live with relatives and the UIL made him sit out a year. He'll be starting on the DL this year. How are these decisions made? Enforcement seems to be real hit and miss.

[Eagle2]

As we all can see transferring has been here since the beginning. Now it's come full circle but worse because of this new modern time we are living in with technology, advancements,and a more open and acceptable society.All for the almighty dollar,pride,popularity,&bragging rights at the expense of 14-18 yr olds whose only purpose should be to receive a quality education & graduate & be prepared for life's next phases.

[Farmer]

Very well said eagle2 very well said

[Eagle2]

Part 3: Answers Questions all have asked and wondered but without a simple solution. Read,Enjoy, & comments.

http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2015/on-the-move/part3.html

[Eagle2]

Part 4: Parents vsCoaches
http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2...ove/part4.html

[Eagle2]

Part 3: Answers Questions all have asked and wondered but without a simple solution. Read,Enjoy, & comments.
http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2...ove/part3.html

Just some interesting observations, some of which you have shared:
1.

“THERE ARE SOME THAT WILL NOT VOTE AGAINST AN ATHLETE FROM ANOTHER SCHOOL, FOR A FAVOR LATER WHEN IT COMES UP FOR THEM.”

Kendall Miller, Garland Lakeview football coach


2.The DEC hearings are conducted by the same members of the UIL district to which the student has transferred,” he said. “There is often a conflict of interest.”

3.One idea mentioned by several local coaches and athletic directors is to have a DEC rule on another district’s transfers instead of its own. But another possibility would be to have district executive committees rule on transfers from another classification, such as 6A handling 5A and vice versa.

4.The school receiving the transfer must do the investigation, which can include talking with the athlete’s parents, the former coach and checking to make sure the transfer is living at the address listed on the PAPF. But the investigative duty usually falls on a coach, and it can be a heavy load, especially when they come right before a season starts.

5.“The DECs are not the problem. The problem is proving that someone transferred for athletic purposes,” he said. “If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, then it’s probably a duck. We all know that sometimes a kid moves for athletic purposes, but you can’t prove it.”

[ktCarl]

You go back to a mandatory sit for a year. Is t a fair system? No but to allow open cheating because you can't prove that parents are openly lying to allow Johnny or Susie Q a shot to play, is the nature of the beast. That would put a stop to a lot of the crap you see going on now which is what it is. Nothing but crap and if we're not careful we are going to turn a once sacred, pure game into a total joke. We're already closer to thay than people realize

And to think I complained about the private schools entering the UIL because of recruiting. Silly me.

[Eagle2]

You go back to a mandatory sit for a year. Is t a fair system? No but to allow open cheating because you can't prove that parents are openly lying to allow Johnny or Susie Q a shot to play, is the nature of the beast. That would put a stop to a lot of the crap you see going on now which is what it is. Nothing but crap and if we're not careful we are going to turn a once sacred, pure game into a total joke. We're already closer to thay than people realize

When reviewing other states policy mainly California & Florida, they both have some type of sit out policy whether a year or games or an ineligible policy. As stated it may not be fair but its in place.

[mojotrain]

Just some interesting observations, some of which you have shared:
1.

“THERE ARE SOME THAT WILL NOT VOTE AGAINST AN ATHLETE FROM ANOTHER SCHOOL, FOR A FAVOR LATER WHEN IT COMES UP FOR THEM.”

Kendall Miller, Garland Lakeview football coach


2.The DEC hearings are conducted by the same members of the UIL district to which the student has transferred,” he said. “There is often a conflict of interest.”

3.One idea mentioned by several local coaches and athletic directors is to have a DEC rule on another district’s transfers instead of its own. But another possibility would be to have district executive committees rule on transfers from another classification, such as 6A handling 5A and vice versa.

4.The school receiving the transfer must do the investigation, which can include talking with the athlete’s parents, the former coach and checking to make sure the transfer is living at the address listed on the PAPF. But the investigative duty usually falls on a coach, and it can be a heavy load, especially when they come right before a season starts.

5.“The DECs are not the problem. The problem is proving that someone transferred for athletic purposes,” he said. “If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, then it’s probably a duck. We all know that sometimes a kid moves for athletic purposes, but you can’t prove it.”

One consideration may be that the problem has outgrown the U I L's capacity and willingness to act. Most of these things occur just a short time before the first kick-off. No way would I leave the policing up to the coach's with-in a district or the district coach's next door. Scratching backs has no borders either. Neither do I have confidence in the U I L, made up of school Adm. policing the problem either.

[Eagle2]

One consideration may be that the problem has outgrown the U I L's capacity and willingness to act. Most of these things occur just a short time before the first kick-off. No way would I leave the policing up to the coach's with-in a district or the district coach's next door. Scratching backs has no borders either. Neither do I have confidence in the U I L, made up of school Adm. policing the problem either.

And this is where we are currently. Its been left up to each(district-dec) to police their own. Unless its an obvious violation or an upset/insistent parent.

[mojotrain]

And this is where we are currently. Its been left up to each(district-dec) to police their own. Unless its an obvious violation or an upset/insistent parent.

Maybe you could research and find out the physical or hands on make-up of the U I L, those who police. How many people are charged with the task of over seeing this specific rule and are they the same year after year? Who are we talking about? From what I see on this site as well as the other one we are swinging at shadows. I would love to see their team roster.

[SLCbacker]

I think they went pretty light on Allen in this article. I guess the writer, and contributors, don't want to get banned from Allen practice. No mention of the Green transfer; which"quacks like a duck", or the Florida receiver, or the large number of transfer starters from last years State Champ team.

[Eagle2]

Maybe you could research and find out the physical or hands on make-up of the U I L, those who police. How many people are charged with the task of over seeing this specific rule and are they the same year after year? Who are we talking about? From what I see on this site as well as the other one we are swinging at shadows. I would love to see their team roster.

State Executive Committee

The State Executive Committee, appointed by the Commissioner of the Texas Education Agency, is composed of eight school administrators, representing each of the four geographical regions and each of the six conferences, and a minimum of four-at-large members.
This committee interprets the rules, settles disputes between different UIL districts and disputes which arise past the district level, conducts investigations and hearings of alleged violations, and hears appeals.
2014-2015 Members of the State Executive Committee

• Vicki Adams, Superintendent, Palacios ISD
• Robin Battershell, Superintendent, Temple ISD
• James Colbert, Jr. Superintendent, West Orange-Cove ISD
• Johanna Denson, Athletic Director, Pflugerville ISD
• Darrian Dover, Superintendent, Meadow ISD
• Paul Galvan, Fort Worth
• Gil Garza, Athletic Director, Dallas ISD
• Teresa Long, Austin
• Willis Mackey, Superintendent, Judson ISD
• Mike Motheral, Sundown
• Daryl Wade, Houston
• Herb Youngblood, Superintendent, Abernathy ISD

District Executive Committees

District executive committees are composed of one school administrator from each school in a UIL district. These committees exemplify grass roots control at its best. They arrange contest schedules and certify district representatives for the next level of competition. They administer and enforce the rules and settle disputes within a district. They have original jurisdiction over all eligibility questions within the district.

As stated previously, seldom does the SEC overturn a decision/ruling by the DEC unless its real blatant.
source: UIL

[mojotrain]

State Executive Committee

The State Executive Committee, appointed by the Commissioner of the Texas Education Agency, is composed of eight school administrators, representing each of the four geographical regions and each of the six conferences, and a minimum of four-at-large members.
This committee interprets the rules, settles disputes between different UIL districts and disputes which arise past the district level, conducts investigations and hearings of alleged violations, and hears appeals.
2014-2015 Members of the State Executive Committee

• Vicki Adams, Superintendent, Palacios ISD
• Robin Battershell, Superintendent, Temple ISD
• James Colbert, Jr. Superintendent, West Orange-Cove ISD
• Johanna Denson, Athletic Director, Pflugerville ISD
• Darrian Dover, Superintendent, Meadow ISD
• Paul Galvan, Fort Worth
• Gil Garza, Athletic Director, Dallas ISD
• Teresa Long, Austin
• Willis Mackey, Superintendent, Judson ISD
• Mike Motheral, Sundown
• Daryl Wade, Houston
• Herb Youngblood, Superintendent, Abernathy ISD

District Executive Committees

District executive committees are composed of one school administrator from each school in a UIL district. These committees exemplify grass roots control at its best. They arrange contest schedules and certify district representatives for the next level of competition. They administer and enforce the rules and settle disputes within a district. They have original jurisdiction over all eligibility questions within the district.

As stated previously, seldom does the SEC overturn a decision/ruling by the DEC unless its real blatant.
source: UIL

Holy smoke! Looking the home towns of the S E C it's easy to see why S C games will be played where they will be played. Not a lot that the three small school reps, all located within a stones throw of Lubbock can do about anything. That aside, it looks like the large population centers with their S E C members in concert with their D E C members can get this open border concept done in quick time.

I'm going to write a book. "Don't cry for West Texas, Sundown, Meadow and Abernathy has our Back".

thanks E2

[Farmer]

Part 4 was a fascinating read. I didn't realize thy Denton ISD had the policy they did for in district transfers and I say good on them. I know it's harsh and what we heard concerning the softball family was sad but that's just life.
I'm not very encouraged that any true reform will happen, I'm just glad the DMN spent the time they did writing that article.